Optimum G2.3 Platinum Series
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In-depth reviews
Gutless – G2.3 blender review Gutless The concept is great, a brushless motor that maintains 75% power with any load put on it The problem is the speed, it does not have enough RPM`s it made it too gutless, would not blend properly, left chucks etc For blending smoothies it is totally useless, it blends smoothies but very, very poorly hence why… Read more
I only used it about 12 times then I put it in the cupboard and eventually sold it cheap
I rang froothie about the performance and they said to blend the smoothie longer that did not help much at all and I`m not buying a high powered blender to blend things longer, defeats the purpose of having a high powered blender
The quality of the blender is good except for the jug started cracking on the bottom and after 6 uses the jug started to go frosty, hard to see through I did not like the jug having a grey tint which was the part going frosty
it might be ok for nut butters etc
I will not recommend it for smoothies
I do not want to buy 2 blenders this one for nut butters and a different blender for smoothies. I want a blender that does both
nut butters and smoothies
so overall I give it 1 star for the concept I would not recommend this G2.3
After having used the wide jugs of the G2.6 and vitamix A2500 I would not go back to skinny jugs like this G2.3 jug
I have owned multiple blenders from froothie
the - 9200a 2ND GEN
the - G2.1 and the - G2.3 and
I still own the G2.6 – the one I do recommend
get the optimum 9400 for $487 or the G2.6 or the vitamix A2500
buy when they are on special otherwise they are over priced
Great solid blender! – Firstly the customer service of Froothie is unparalleled in my experience; so hats off to Luke for his help, advice and general assistance! They are very easy to deal with and email back quickly. I used to own a Blendtec blender and I had it for 9 years including the 1L Twister Jar so I have that as my standard. I also owned a PolyCool blender… Read more
while we got the money together for a decent new blender. It was pretty crappy and fell apart very soon after a month or two.
The G2.3 is fantastic and have used it daily for the past few months. I love that its a Brushless motor and is far less noisy than even the Blendtec. I haven't had any issues with any of the blending itself; everything has come out smooth.
I do have to do agree with someone who said that if you are blending thicker things in the 1L rotating jug and the lid pops off during blending it will most likely cause the lid scraping arms to hit the blades. Thus causing it to break or damage one of the arms. This happened to me. However just use a bit of elbow grease and push down when blending as nothing is perfectly designed. Should also note that Froothie sent me a new lid for the rotating jar when I told them about the lid incident.
I think this blender is perfect for people who use it mostly for smoothies, soups, dips, etc and not so much 'heavier' or thicker things like nut butters and very thick things. If that's your style then maybe look at something that does have a higher RPM.
This is probably perfect for the majority of peoples needs.
A little underwhelming, with needed improvements, but does a great job anyway – >> BACKGROUND I was weighing up between the more tried and true Optimum 9200A, and the Optimum G2.3 Platinum. In NZ, the G2.3 was on sale when I wanted to purchase a blender, and the 9200A was not. So I bit the bullet and went for the G2.3, despite seeing mixed reviews and opinions expressed online. I have experience with various models of… Read more
Vitamix, and had always intended to one day get either a Vitamix or Blendtec blender. Alas, the price of these devices in New Zealand is prohibitive ($1300K ++). The G2.3 is almost as expensive, but on sale (at $650) it seemed well worth getting.
>> BUILD QUALITY I was disappointed to see that Froothie have resorted to using a relatively soft rubber fitting where the motor engages with the blender (the Jug/Base Coupling). They promote their use of metal for the Jug/Base Coupling on their much lower priced 8200 blender, and yet on a blender selling for 4x the price, they have a soft rubber coupling. The 9200A also has a metal coupling, as do all the Vitamix and Blendtec blenders I've seen.
After only minimal use, already the rubber coupling is starting to chip away. Apparently, this occurs relatively easily, especially because when blending thicker substances (like nut butters or hummus) you have to put a fair bit of effort into ensuring the 1-litre rotating jug does not lift up from the base at all. There's nothing locking it in place (which is typical for high-speed blenders) so it easily lifts off, and must be actively held down with one hand. If it lifts up, the blender will stop. But, more importantly, it can also cause the Jug/Base Coupling to get damaged if the rotating parts collide. There's almost no practical way to consistently avoid this. Looking at photos of the 9200A and the G2.1, I get the impression the four lugs that stand up from the base, which slot in under the jug, may be a little shorter on the G2.3, which perhaps makes it easier to jiggle around and lift up. That's a guess though.
In my opinion, going with a rubber coupling was a very poor design decision for a $1300 blender. As I can see the rubber coupling is very likely going to be the first thing to significantly wear out (and require replacing) on the G2.3, I've knocked a half star off my rating for this poor coupling design. It would have cost Froothie perhaps a few dollars more to use a steel coupling.
Other than the coupling issue, the build quality is acceptable. No other particular complaints. The jugs are sturdy, the blades seem decent enough (although only time will tell how durable they are), and the base unit is fairly solid. No complaints there.
>> HIGH-SPEED? (NOT REALLY) On my first use, I was surprised and underwhelmed by the significantly slower speed of the G2.3, compared to the 9200A or a Vitamix or Blendtec. At first I thought there was something wrong with the blender, as the speed does not noticeably increase in the last three speed points. I since found out from Froothie staff the G2.3 has a speed range of 11,000 to 15,000 rpm. Compare that to the 48,000 rpm of the Optimum 9200A (2nd generation), and it's a massive jump down. It's less than 1/3 the RPM. When I noticed (yes, it's very noticeable) how slow it was, I was concerned it would not be anywhere near as good at doing all the many things a "high-speed" blender can do. In my opinion, the Optimium G2.3 is not really a "high-speed" blender. I'd consider it a mid-speed blender.
I've taken half a star off my rating for the poor speed performance (relative to standard "high-speed blenders").
Just how well it actually works at its lower speed, I cover next.
>> EXPERIENCE First off... Despite the relatively slow RPM, it has managed to do a GREAT job of everything I've thrown at it. I've actually been rather surprised by this. I was expecting it might perform relatively poorly due to the speed. I've tried blending fruit and vegetables -- whole kale (stalks and all), apples, whole carrots (for vegetable hummus), cooked chickpeas (for hummus), frozen banana and frozen blueberries (for fruit ice cream), soaked almonds (for almond milk), etc. I've also turned desiccated coconut into smooth coconut butter. All have blended without any issues. The almond milk came out as good as any I've experienced in other high-speed blenders.
Does it take much longer, due to the slow speed? I can't compare it to the 48,000 rpm 9200A, as I don't have one, but here are some numbers. To blend a 2/3 full 1-litre rotating jug of desiccated coconut into smooth butter, it takes around 60 to 80 seconds. Roasted peanuts turn into crunchy butter in around 40 seconds, and smooth butter in around 60 to 80 seconds. I blend a hummus from freshly soaked and cooked chickpeas in around 60 seconds. Blending a liquid + banana + green powder smoothie is easily done in 30 seconds. Blending carrot into a carrot hummus, around 45 to 60 seconds. Ice cream (with 2 frozen bananas, a cup of frozen blueberries, and some coconut cream) takes perhaps 45 to 60 seconds. Again, I've used the 1-litre rotating jug for everything thick, and the 2-litre jug only for liquids.
I've also ground brown rice, and dried chickpeas into flour. I've done all that with the 1-litre rotating jug. It worked well. That took perhaps 2 to 3 minutes for the chickpeas, and around 90 to 120 seconds for the flour. Perhaps a little longer, depending how fine you want it. I used the 1-litre jug for these dry ingredients.
About the only thing I use the main 2-litre jug for is liquids. It makes smoothies without any issues.
** ERROR ? I have noted that when using the 1-litre rotating jug for thick substances, it's relatively easy to get the machine to go into an "Err" (error) mode, at which point it beeps, flashes "ERR" on the screen, and promptly shuts down. As far as I can tell, this happens when the material is not feeding down into the blades sufficiently. For some reason, that results in the blade speed fluctuating (pulsing) and it results in an oddly loud sound, and if unabated it eventually shuts down. I am not sure why it does that. I would have thought if the food was not feeding down, the blades would simply continue rotating at full speed (for the speed setting being used), and not make any fuss about it.
** 1-LITRE JUG The additional 1-litre rotating jug is a huge bonus. It's obviously copied from (or "inspired by") the Blendtec Twister jug, which retails in NZ for over $250 (just for the jug). I've found it very handy for anything thick. Such as nut butters and hummus. It easily beats using the standard jug with the tamper to push thick stuff down into the blades.
In my opinion, this 1-litre rotating jug is one of the MAJOR plusses with this blender. It really is EXCELLENT. Very handy for nut butters, ice cream, hummus, etc. It's played a big part in my decision to keep the G2.3, despite the various issues I've pointed out in this review.
** LIDS The 1-litre jug lid does not seal at all well. That's fine if you don't attempt blending liquids in it. I don't use it for liquids, except when cleaning it with some hot soapy water. Than the poor lid seal is a bit of a nuisance, and it has to be operated at a slow speed, otherwise liquid readily makes its way out.
The 2-litre jug lid is fine. No issues. The tamper reaches down to a couple of centimeters above the blade, and works as expected. The lid seals around the edge well, although the hole cover is a little light-weight and flimsily attached, compared to the Vitamix blenders I've used. If you have a lot of liquid in there, and go at maximum speed, this may result in liquid seeping out around the tamper hole lid.
>> NOISE LEVELS I think it is noticeably quieter than the high-speed Vitamix blenders I have used, and much quieter than the various low cost low-speed blenders I've come across. I suspect this can be attributed to the brushless motor, combined with the fact it's operating at about 1/3 the speed of a Vitamix.
>> CLEANING The ease of cleaning is much the same as any other high-speed blender on which the blade can not be removed from the base. Practically, this means blending it with some warm soapy water to get thick substances out from under the blades, and scrubbing with a dish brush for cleaning the inner sides of the jug.
>> CONCLUSION I was on the verge of sending this machine back. The two main reasons were, 1) the relatively low speed of the blender) and, 2) the crappy rubber jug/blade coupling. Since it actually does everything very well, despite the relatively low speed, I am letting that pass. As for the coupling, I guess I'll just accept the fact it may need replacing much sooner than a steel coupling.
If I'd paid full price (AU$1200, NZ$1300) I think I would have returned it for a refund, under their 30 day satisfaction guarantee. As I got it for NZ$650, I am going to happily keep it. It does a GREAT job of everything I've attempted to do with it, and that's the main thing I think is important.
I give it a rating of 4 stars. 1 stars deducted, for the reasons stated above.
PS. The blender I received has a fault in the LED display, on arrival. One of the speed settings does not illuminate. Froothie is arranging to replace/repair it, which requires it being shipped back, etc. This might mean no blender for a few weeks, but such is life. It's an obvious fault / issue, which in my opinion should have been picked up by a basic quality control procedure before it left the factory. I guess no one actually turns on each blender to test they actually work before being released. For a $1300 blender, I would have expected a little better from their QA department.
>> UPDATE Feb 20 2019: It's been about 14 months I've had this blender. I was away for 7 of those months, so it's had around 7 months of use. As expected, the rubber piece that engages the drive unit with the blender got demolished in one short moment of the small grinder jug tilting slightly to one side. Froothie custom service, in my experience, is excellent. They are sending me a few more of those rubber lugs. The are easily removed and replaced. I think they should by default include two spares with the original blender, as it's an obvious weak point. The "Err" message continues to show up when blending heavy loads, and the motor has issues with such loads (it pulses in speed, and then gives the error message, and shuts off). But I've got accustomed to it, and work around it.
Positive reviews
Knowledge – I felt stressful having to make the call to ask for a spare part for my blender bought in 2017 to my amazement the guy on the phone new what I wanted it was in stock and we are blending again. WOW WOW that man needs a pay rise,what a company ❤️ Show reply
Great product, great service. - Thank You – Was very pleased a senior manager was fielding calls and accepted this case from start to finish. Lead by example is an excellent form of motivation and his actions were greatly appreciated. Thank you, Francois. Show reply
Great after sales service – I had a problem with wear of the rubber socket on the drive . With some photos and diagnostics problem was identified and a replacement part was sent free of charge. My blender ,which is used daily ,is back in action working well again .Thank you Froothie! Show reply
Negative reviews
Underwhelmed and disappointed – I got this machine as an 'upgrade' for my original optimum 9400 blender purchase and overall, I am fairly disappointed. The machine's blending ability is alright. It makes very smooth blends even if you put nuts and kale in it, but you must blend it for longer. The smoothie function is not made for that (I have yet to make a recipe in one minute… Read more
in this blender).
Ive made: walnut, kale and pumpkin smoothie bowl, banana and cauliflower nicecream, coconut butter and pistachio butter
The walnut kale smoothie required much longer than a minute (the smoothie function does not work for this)
The banana and cauliflower nice cream came out with little bits of cauliflower still in it.
The coconut butter took 10+ minutes and was still not completely smooth
The pistachio butter took 5+ minutes and was fairly smooth
Cleaning:
Cleaning the machine is really a pain after nut butters because the blades cannot be removed and blending with dishwasher soap simply does not work. Under the blades was a lot of nut butter. This meant I had to use a sponge and a toothbrush to scrub out the bottom of the blender (which is a lot more work than an average blender). The blending technique works for other things though.
I was told to soak the jug in white vinegar and dishwasher soap overnight but that is also a pain everytime I make nut butter...
Spatula:
The spatula doesn't really do much. The sides of the blender are still hard to scrape down.
Speed function: (totally personal preference)
The lack of the dial really makes the blending process stressful because its all timed and I have to remember to press '+20' every time. I definitely prefer a dial. I also accidentally brushed one of the speeds with my finger once while the lid was not secure in place... didn't go down well. My fault but wouldn't have happened if there was a dial. I also enjoy the gradual nature of the dial.
Overall, the blender creates smooth blends (aside from tough things like frozen cauliflower), is hard to clean (when making nut butters), is hard to scrape down (even with the spatula) and is not worth the price. Its an alright blender, but not worth it. Would not recommend. Very disappointing :(
Hello JoJo, My name is Francois, General… Read more (+1 reply)
Short circuited the power in my house! – After reading many reviews and not wanting to pay the price of a Vitamix I also opted for this blender. Whilst I wouldn't say it is quiet it is some what less noisy then other blenders I've had. It worked well for about 3 weeks until it short circuited my house and the power had to be reset at the electricity box. After that the blender would no… Read more
longer work, I couldn't even get it to switch on. I'd like to think this was a random faulty unit but after reading the review of another person here from April I don't think so. Least to say I am disappointed because I've only had the blender for three weeks and when I placed a ticket inquiry through warranty, I was told to allow the blender to rest off power over night to see if it works again. This was incredibly frustrating because by that point in time it had already been 24hours. It took two to three days of back and forth communication before I was told I to send the blender back but that if it wasn't properly packaged and damaged in shipment it would be my liability and also if not cleaned properly there would be a $30 cleaning fee. I don't know how you can be liable for a blender that's already faulty! No one expects a product to break 3 weeks after purchasing it brand new. I think it's poor service to then turn the tables on the customer in terms liability for re-shipment and to return it to them to 'have a look at it for you.' I would have also thought an immediate replacement would have covered it, especially because the product became faulty within their 30 day money back guarantee. I'm very unhappy with the service at this point and the quality of the product. My old thirty dollar blender worked for years without being faulty, why pay $700 for something that doesn't work for more then three weeks. I was also upgraded from an order of the G2.1 as they didn't have any in stock.
Hi Jackie! I am glad to hear the Optimum G2.3… Read more (+1 reply)
Trips the power – As with other reviewers, after much deliberating and tossing up between an Optimum and a Vitamix, the big money difference, and the many great reviews online, swayed me towards the Optimum. I originally purchased the 2.1, but was offered an upgrade to the 2.3 as none were in stock. Too good to be true? (I now think so). I liked the look of the… Read more
2.3, maybe not as "sleek" as the 2.1, but still really nice. Also liked how much quieter is was than any other high powered blender I have heard before. Unfortunately, it has been nothing but a disaster, with my power tripping nearly every time the jug is either put on, or taken off, the base. When it works, it is fine, have made good smoothies, ice creams, hummus and soup, as long as I remember to turn it off at power point before touching the jug (I have many other high energy appliances, and never had this problem before). Better than a Vitamix I'm not too sure...
I contacted customer support straight away, and have asked for it to be returned for my original 2.1, which I am now being told is still a few weeks away (maybe longer). I was also told my 2.3 would be inspected/repaired and a new one given if it was deemed to have a major fault, which I found a bit annoying as I had already deemed it a major fault straight out of the box, surely an immediate brand new replacement is the only acceptable response??
I am considering just asking for a refund, and getting a much more expensive Vitamix. (which I do feel is largely overpriced, but maybe you DO get what you pay for?)
On the whole, a really disappointing experience for a still none too cheap item
Dear Nicky, My name is Francois and I am the… Read more (+2 replies)
Recent reviews
After paying only a few hundred I wasn't expecting anything great from the optimum G2.3, but since then have found it is quieter and blends smoother than my top of the range vitamix blender, and the best part is the almost completely vibration free motor, easily the best blender by far I've ever owned. Show details · 1
Great experiences with this company! – Very happy. The blender is efficient and quiet. I've purchased a couple of appliances from this company lately and will definitely be back. Great value for money, and I am seriously impressed with the quality of the products! Show reply
Replacement part working perfectly – I have had my Optimum G2.3 Platinum for nearly 8 years now, and have loved and used it through-out that time. I had an issue with the drive socket rubber starting to disintegrate so ordered a replacement drive socket, that I had in my hand within 3 days. Can't recommend this company enough, I have bought 2 other products through them and am very… Read more · 1
impressed with both the equipment itself and the after sales support. Keep up the good work, and on the fateful day that my blender does explode, I know where I will be going to get a new one. Thanks!!
Find out how Optimum G2.3 Platinum Series compares to other Blenders
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Absolutely amazing! – We've been using this blender every day since purchasing it and we cannot fault it. It blends perfectly every time, it's not as loud as others we tried and it is as described. Show details · 1
Perfect blender – I was luckily to come across a sale with froothie team for a lesser model. They gave me the option of the more powerful G.2 3 model just it has an international plug. No big deal for me! Now this blender is unique, has two jugs, one is a massive 2 litres for easier stuff. Then the smaller I’m am going to crack these nuts. It’s got many functions… Read more · 1
and hacks them down to a smooth paste. It also looks elegant on a counter, can self clean by throwing some water in the mix. I traditionally went red off course and it’s amazing to just sit there looking glamorous. As much as I love this blender I have to say the people at froothie are exceptional and deserve credit.
Quality blender at a great price! – Blender is optimum, easy to use. Quieter machine than most. Blends most foods well. I really enjoy being able to use my blender for a numerous amount of blends including sauces, smoothies and soups. Show details · 1
Best blender we've had – This blender is easily the best we've had (and we've had a few). Ours gets a good workout daily preparing vegetable smoothies, etc. Highly recommended. And, as I've just discovered, if you leave the lid insert in the jug and "blend" it (!) you can easily get spares from Froothie who provide friendly and efficient service. Show details · 1
Excellent replacement for my previous blender – I make smoothies every morning using frozen berries, bananas and fresh ginger with apple, orange and carrots, chia and pumpkin seeds, almonds, toasted oats, turmeric, ground black pepper and pomegranate juice. I was concerned that the blender was not fast enough to chop everything enough, but on the fruit/veg setting it produces a far superior… Read more · 1
smoothie than my old very high speed blender and handles all the ingredients with ease. Very easy to operate and clean. To make things even better it is so much quieter than the old blender.
Super powerful – So impressed with this machine, have never had such beautiful smoothies. When researching I wasn't sure if it was going to be powerful enough however I find it incredibly powerful! Had a small issue with my rotating jug lid however the support team went absolutely above and beyond and couldn't have been more helpful. Cannot recommend enough Show details · 1
So quiet! – This blender is so quiet! Really impressed by how quiet this blender really is, did not expect this. What I also like is the extra small jug that was included for free. I use it especially when I make smoothies just for myself. And I have also made some peanut butter today, worked great :) I also want to thank the customer service team, they have been very helpful and responding quickly to my questions. Show details · 1
Better than Vitamix – I really like this blender and I got it to replace my vitamix that quit after about 5 years. The g2.3 is also much quieter than any other blender I have had. This makes it easy for me to make treats at night when my roommate is sleeping as I tend to enjoy baking at night after work. Thanks to Froothie for bringing such a good blender out! Show details · 1
So many uses! – Since getting my hands on this i have been nothing short of impressed with this product. I use it daily every morning for my smoothie's and it has no issue blending down things like kale, celery and spinach. Ive also made ice cream with it and in a pinch have used it to grind spice without any problem. I would reccommend this to anyone! Show details · 1
Find out how Optimum G2.3 Platinum Series compares to other Blenders
Know better, choose better.
Excellent machine – This machine does way more than what we use it for. It handles everything we throw in it with ease. The only problem we had was when the lid wasn't held down during operation and covered the entire kitchen in blended gunk. Lesson learnt, always hold lid during operation. Otherwise can't fault unit. Show details
blender – Great purchase value for money, handles all foods with ease give the best consistency. Very reliable product well built very impressive finish. Get all round product not very noisy easy to use and clean. Show details
Had it for 2 months now, its great – I've been using this a few times a week now for two months to make nut milk and frozen banana ice cream, so not the two easiest jobs. Its been great so far! Just chuck in some frozen bananas, press the sorbet button, and the ice cream is ready in 90 seconds. So good to be able to eat ice cream everyday!! The machine seems solid. I had ordered… Read more
the optimum 9400 but they were waiting for the shipment to re-stock so was offered to upgrade to this one for free. It was scary spending so much on a machine so I read tonnes of reviews but I am happy.
Impressed – Wow ! I am impressed with this blender. Got it today and first thing I did was soaked a cup of almonds for 5 hours ( can’t wait any longer) to make almond milk. I used top speed for the 60 seconds programmed, and the milk came out smooth and creamy . The pulp is so fine unlike the ones I got from my old ( spat the dummy) blender. Will try nut… Read more · 6
butter tomorrow.
The support service guys ( Paul , sorry only got one name), are really fantastic. They were very reassuring and calm and helpful on the phone, as well as live chat. Email response - not so prompt .
The delivery was super quick too in Auckland.
Good for making veggie drinks – We want a blender that can blend veggies as well as fruits. Not all of them do the work as some veggies are harder to blend. This one works well and you can separate the pulp easily. It's easy to assemble though the washing isn't such a chore because the machine dismantles easily and not too many parts to wash each time. The blending ability is good -- it does take some of the tougher fruits and veggies and makes a good job of it. Show details
Was well worth the price I paid – Initially pre-ordered a G2.1 in May and on the website it stated that it would be about three weeks before the next shipment became available. After five weeks and now into June I rang Froothie NZ and enquired as why the delay and that the website G2.1 pre-orderhad been changed to end of June. The support staff bent over backwards to help and… Read more
asked would I like to upgrade to a G2.3, this was the model that I initially wanted but it was too much at the time for me to purchase. I accepted and it was here in three business days, this is one machine that is worth the price and cannot have anything but praise for this machine as both my wife (who is a chef by trade) and our family have used it almost on a daily basis.
For people deciding on Optimum I would say do it, you won't regret it!
Love my G2.3 blender!! – I use it for everything from soups, smoothies, juices, nut butters to nut milk. Quiet and creates great products. Couldn't be happier with it!! Show details
Quiet and Efficient – I originally purchased the G2.1 and though the results were good however the noise level was fairly extreme. Shortly after the purchase Froothie offered a discount on the G2.3. They made me an offer to do a switch and I accepted. The power, lack of noise and even the weight of the G2.3 is tremendous. I guess brushless electric motors for blenders… Read more
is the way of the future. I use it quite regularly and the blender has stepped up on every occasion. If you catch it on sale buy it as it's well worth it.
Thrilled! – I use my blender at least once a day and couldn't be happier! I was offered an upgraded from the Optimum 9400 to the Optimum G2.3 blender for an extra $99 and after talking with a sales person from Froothie decided to go for it. The blender fits nicely on my bench top without taking up too much space in my little kitchen and looks cool! I use it… Read more · 2
to make my almond milk daily and the result is beautiful creamy milk. My smoothies are a perfect consistency, blending up nuts, seeds, frozen fruit and greens perfectly. I have made delicious coconut ice cream with frozen bananas and used it to chop up nuts and seeds for my muesli. The machine is quieter than most which is great as I have a very anxious dog who freaks out with loud noises, although he does leave the room when it's in operation. All in all I am thrilled I purchased the Optimum from Froothie who's customer service is excellent in my view, and thrilled I made the upgrade at the reduced price!
Fantastic Blender and excellent customer service – I did a lot of research prior to purchasing this blender. Couldn't be happier. Great functionality, powerful and so quiet compared to other blenders. Handles everything you throw at it with ease. Best customer service I've ever received. Highly recommended. Show details
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Hello Darren, thank you for a great detailed… Read more